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User talk:JenniBee
Valued contributions *Let me say how I have appreciated your contributions to Futurepedia, especially with the release of the IDW ongoing series. Your attention to detail and breakdown of the comics has been immensely helpful in getting Futurepedia larger and more fleshed out. Thank you very much! -- Riffsyphon1024 07:32, January 30, 2016 (UTC) **Thanks. :) I'm glad to help out. JenniBee (talk) 18:01, January 31, 2016 (UTC) Hi Jennifer love your articles. I was lookign for someone to help me build out my wiki at www.wikiproductrecommendations.com, and I was hoping I could hire you to build out the page on Back to the Future. Let me know what you think! Or if you know someone looking for a gig! Best, WikiProducts (talk) 00:02, October 28, 2016 (UTC)WikiProducts Fox Pasadena Theatre (not Theater!) Hi JenniBee, Just thought I'd drop you a line to apologize for 'correcting' the name of Fox Pasadena Theatre. I honestly had no idea that the theater's name was actually spelled as 'Theatre' (U.K. spelling) and not 'Theater' (U.S. spelling). Had I known this, I wouldn't have renamed the page, thinking it was a mistake. I've changed the name back, and added info in the 'Behind the scenes' section to point out that 'theatre' is the correct spelling so, hopefully, no other historians will make the same mistake I did. You've done some good work on Futurepedia recently, such as adding more info and/or images to pages I've created, so keep it up. I await your reply with great interest. -- Freddie R. Aldous (talk) 19:17, March 13, 2017 (UTC) :No problem, both for the misunderstanding (it is a bit weird that they used theatre in the name), and for the articles and images. I'm just glad to help where I can. :D JenniBee (talk) 19:47, March 14, 2017 (UTC) 1986 timelines Hello, I believe the best way to deal with the current overlapping timelines of the IDW comics and the game is to try and harmonize it as best as possible. As stated by Bob Gale in the first issue of Citizen Brown: "when you have a time machine and a premise that allows for multiple pasts, presents, and futures, everything is canon". The information you wrote on the 1986A timeline should be on the 2015C page (although I personally think it's too speculatory, we don't even know if Marty graduated from the Swedish boarding school). I propose this: *1986A is the timeline in which Doc did not appear with his family in the time train in 1985, that only happened after Doc returned to 1893 following his adventure with Marty and Jennifer in 1986. *1986B is the timeline in which Hill Valley is ruled by the Tannen crime family. *1986C is Citizen Brown's timeline. I personally think we should exclude the "regular" timeline from the ABC designations. For example, the timeline at the end of the first movie is not 1985A, even though it's an alternate version of the original timeline. So the timeline at the end of the game is the "regular" 1986, even though, again, it's slightly different from the previous one. The Wikia Editor (talk) 23:29, May 22, 2017 (UTC) :Actually, I've just noticed that you've done something similar to this, creating 1986A-G. But as I've already stated, I think it's best to reserve the ABC designations for timelines that are sufficiently different from the "normal" timeline that's typically depicted. The Wikia Editor (talk) 01:21, May 23, 2017 (UTC) ::Each timeline has significant differences though. In 1985B, Marty didn't hit the Rolls-Royce, completely changing the course of his future. In 1985C, Marty went camping with his band in his truck instead of on a bus, which leads him to realize his memories don't match, which allows Marcus Irving to prey on his fears. 1986A is going to be revealed in Biff to the Future 5, so I created it so that the pages wouldn't have to be shifted again once it's released. In 1986B, Doc is lost in the future, which is significant as he needs to get back to 1893 in order for him to arrive in the Jules Verne train in 1985. In 1986C, Marty becomes lost in the future, which is significant as he needs to be back in order to make sure that Marty Jr. and Marlene are born. In 1986D, Doc creates a second DeLorean time machine, which is significant as it's needed in order to travel to the future to get the parts needed to complete the Jules Verne Train. In 1986E, Douglas Needles is arrested, which would change Needles' future, which eventually needs to result in him investing in GriffTech. In 1986F, Marcus gets the flux capacitor, which allows him to make himself rich - making a very different timeline. 1986G is significantly different, as there are androids from the future that incapacitate Needles and his gang, and kidnap Marty and Doc. In 1986H, 1986G is averted - so it's vastly different. Plus, Joey gets out of prison, which is significantly changed from the newspaper report from 2015A. JenniBee (talk) 02:29, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::The information on the 1986A page is part of the 2015C timeline, which is where it should go. I think it's for the best to isolate the information on the alternate timelines to important years, rather than create seperate articles for each and every alternate timeline year. Ideally, for example, I don't think pages like 1973A should exist, this information is part of the 1985A/2015C timeline, which is where it should go. As for the other timelines, their not really significantly different, it's still mostly the same world, with minor differences. I actually creating "1997A" might be better, because that's the year in which the major changes to the world caused by Marcus were evident. I've moved the information you wrote on 1986B to Timeline 8, as that seems much better and less cluttered to me. I've done the same thing for the subsequent timelines as well. As for Joey getting out of prison, the 2015A newspaper report states that he was serving a twenty year term for racketeering and had been denied parole for the twelfth consecutive time in 2015, meaning that he had to have been arrested in 2003. So that's not really a change, it just means that he will get arrested again in 2003, unless Marty and Doc somehow prevent that. Again, I don't think we should use the ABC designation for timelines that are little different from what Marty and Doc might consider "normal". The Wikia Editor (talk) 10:47, May 23, 2017 (UTC) ::::Parole hearings take many years to happen. They don't happen every year. In California, if an inmate is denied parole, the parole board can decide to set the next parole hearing for 3, 5, 7, or 10 years. If Joey's been denied parole twelve times, he's serving much more than a twenty year sentence (which was probably to show the dystopian aspect of the future, since justice isn't so great since all lawyers were abolished in the United States in that timeline). As for the designations, if we don't use the A/B/C marks for the current timelines present in the game, it just makes the information confusing. If we just stuck to the game, we'd have 1986A/B/C, but it would have taken place after the events of the comic, and wouldn't detail the significant new things that have been added in alternate timelines between (such as the steam time car, the time parachute, the second DeLorean, Doc's friendship with Marcus). Those are really important additions that deserve to be outlined as much as Edna's new attitude at the end of the game (since Doc has 4 time travel devices and a colleague who knows almost as much about time travel as he does, these changes affect the world much more than a marriage to a former gangster does). JenniBee (talk) 11:38, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::Hello - I'd just like to point something out concerning all the timeline renaming that's going on. Since the game has been stated to take place completely independently from the comics, the current format of the game timelines coming after the IDW ones in the alphabet seems misleading. I think it might be a better idea to label them as follows: 1986B (IDW) 1986B (Telltale) Since 1986B is the timeline that comes two after the main one, and both of them fulfil that and are both the respective 1986B of their continuity. Also, Doc actually names the timelines in the game, albeit from 1931 but it has implicit consequences for 1986. 1986A is where Edna was not caught, B is when Doc was killed, C is with no McFlys in 1986 because Arthur dies, and D is Tannen Hill Valley, which leaves Citizen Brown as 1986E (he doesn't say this one since it hasn't happened yet, but some game files label its assets as such.) Since all of them are being moved around I thought this might be a good opportunity to change it to reflect what Doc has stated. Perhaps you all have other plans for the wiki, but this is what I think could work. Olicomet (talk) 11:09, May 23, 2017 (UTC) ::::I'm not aware of any source that states that the comic is completely independent of the game. It's been stated that they are different timelines, but it's never been said that they are independent of each other. In fact, when talking about the comics, Bob Gale stated that "when you have a time machine and a premise that allows for multiple pasts, presents, and futures, everything is canon". The different timelines actually fit in quite nicely together when you plug the game timeline after the comic (the comic weaves in and out of the films, but the game never showed anything from the films except for a nightmare sequence at the beginning of the game and a few scattered references to events that happened in the trilogy). In the game, Marty simply says he saw the DeLorean get hit by a train, and asks where the DeLorean came from - which can easily be seen as shock by Marty that this DeLorean was exactly the same as the DeLorean that got hit by a train (as opposed to the second DeLorean, which was partially made by parts from the 1890s). Even more, in the final issue of the comic adaptation of the game, they even state that Doc used the second DeLorean when he came to 1931 from 1986, which answers where Doc's DeLorean came from in the game, and ties the game adaptation and the main comic pretty neatly together. It's also been previously decided on this wiki to go with the A/B/C timeline designations rather than parenthesis (such as when 1991 (dinosaur timeline) was changed to 1991A).JenniBee (talk) 11:38, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::::Thank you for your contribution to this conversation. I personally don't think that we should seperate 1986 into two seperate articles, mostly because Bob Gale himself stated that more or less everything is canon. The events of the game don't really contradict the comics anyway, we can just assume that the events of the game happened and that the game's ending got resolved "off screen". My main goal at this point is to avoid cluttering the wiki with redundant pages. Here's what I propose: :::::We reserve the ABC designation for timelines that are completely different from what Marty and Doc would consider "normal" (1985A, Kid Tannen's timeline, Citizen Brown's timeline, etc.). :::::We move the current information in 1986B-I to Timeline 8-16 respectively. I've already done Timeline 8 and would like to hear feedback on it. Not to mention the fact that, at the current rate, we'll end up running out of letters given how many timelines have been created in the comics thus far. :::::Reduntant pages like 1973A should be moved to 1973 and 1985A/2015C. In case anyone is confused about the distinction between 1985A and 2015C, here's an explanation: :::::*2015C is created when old Biff arrives in 1955, gives his younger self the almanac and then returns to 2015. This timeline is like 1985A except Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein did not arrive on October 26. This timeline ended when Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein departed from 2015 to 1985. :::::*1985A only existed for a short while, from October 26, when Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein arrived from 2015C, to the early morning of October 27, when Marty and Doc departed to 1955. Their presence created slight alterations, but nothing of significance as this timeline ceased to exist on October 27, 1985. :::::The parts of Biff to the Future that occur after 1985 occured in 2015C, which is where any information pertaining to it should be. Thoughts? The Wikia Editor (talk) 14:01, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::::-------- :::::The game does contradict the comics, as they both present Marty, not having seen Doc since the events of BTTF 3, meeting Doc again. Surely Bob Gale wouldn't have included that foreword if it didn't contradict the main series? :::::I know that the wiki labels years as 'ABC' rather than '(dinosaur timeline)', but I'm suggesting the parentheses to differentiate between ABC timelines that would otherwise be labelled in the same way - i.e. the 1986A of Continuum Conundrum/IDW and the 1986A seen in the game/game adaptation. :::::However, having read what you said earlier, I agree that it would be a lot neater to use Timeline 8, 9, etc. for non-significant time alterations just so that we don't end up with 1986Z by the end of the year. :::::We could add the events of Biff to the Future to the Timeline 4 article, since it's not quite 2015C yet in the comics (and I doubt they'll get all the way to 2015 anyway). :::::Olicomet (talk) 13:58, May 23, 2017 (UTC) ::::::The game never really makes as much of a deal about things that would actually contradict the two. They actually do fit in well together. Doc's having a garage sale, and George and the bank hasn't seen him for six months. This is still true in the comics, as Doc sneaked into the McFly residence and wasn't seen by George or Lorraine (Marty says he knows for a fact that Doc is OK, but Marty can't exactly tell his dad that he's been time traveling with Doc). Marty is wishing for Doc to show up, to stop the estate sale, but never specifies the last time he saw him, nor do they upon reuniting in 1931, Doc just says that he's glad to see Marty and they "have a lot of catching up to do". And, as I said before, Marty's response at seeing the DeLorean could easily be explained by it being a surprise that it's identical to the DeLorean that crashed into the locomotive (as opposed to the second DeLorean which used some 19th century parts). There's nothing there really that makes it impossible for the game to fit within the timeline of the comics. JenniBee (talk) ::::::I agree that there is a small contradiction between the comics and the game, but overall the events still aren't particularly contradictory and can be smoothed over. I'd rather avoid this whole debacle altogether and instead focus on creating timeline articles instead, reserving the 'ABC' designation for timelines that are massively different, such as 1985A. The way it is now is, in my opinion, impractical. We'll end up running out of letters at this rate and it makes the 'ABC' designation less meaningful. ::::::At the moment, there are three articles focusing on the Biff's casino timeline, Timeline 4, 1985A and 2015C. I think the best way to deal with this is to use the timeline articles as, well, timelines, describing what happens from when it's created to the moment it ceases to exist. Meanwhile, years with the 'ABC' designation will describe the world itself. As such, Timeline 4 will just be a timeline from when old Biff arrived in 1955 (actually, he visited the Cretaceous era first, but that doesn't make much difference) to the moment Marty and Doc traveled to 1985, whereas 1985A/2015C will be a description of the actual world created by old Biff's time traveling. ::::::Also, I've been thinking about Joey's parole hearings in 2015A, he's explicitly stated to be serving a "20 year term", with twelve consecutive parole hearings as of 2015. I think the implication is supposed to be that the more swift justice system allows for annual hearings but still doesn't benefit guys like Joey. I don't know of any other interpretation of "20 year term" other than 20 consecutive years. The Wikia Editor (talk) 16:03, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::::::I still think it's really weird that a date wouldn't branch off into an alternate date, but rather a date in the future or past. It just seems odd to have the 1986A, etc. information on 2015C, or on Timeline 4, and then not have it as a branch of 1986. It just seems counter-intuitive to put information of an alternate timeline in a different year than the events in which it happens. It makes more sense to have 1986 branch off into the alternate timelines for those years, as it is now, and note that the other years that follow that timeline as I did in Hell Valley. As for Joey, the 20 year term doesn't mean that he's not serving beyond that. There have been cases of people in real life serving way longer than their sentenced term because they got lost in the system. Without lawyers, it's not hard to fathom that Joey would be one of those people. It seems to me that this was done on purpose, as the 1972 date is pretty specific, and lines up perfectly with the 12 parole hearings via California law. JenniBee (talk) 15:28, May 23, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::I understand it might seem odd, but the way you're currently trying to go about is resulting in a whole bunch of redundant articles that aren't really needed. The 1985A article is more for the purpose of describing the world that exists in that timeline, whereas the timeline itself can be summarized in Timeline 3 & 4. The information you've written on the 1986A article can simply be included in Timeline 3 and the "Events" section of 1986. That way we can use 1986A to once again describe the timeline with the Tannen crime family. It's a lot more efficient that way and a lot less cluttered. Creating a numbered year for every minor non-significant time alteration just isn't very orderly. And again, at the rate these comics are going, you're going to run out of letters anyway. The Wikia Editor (talk) 18:54, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::This wiki has always been meticulous when it comes to adding everything that happens in a year, into the year in which it happened. Plus, the year+A system has always been used to denote any break from the regular from that year on this wiki (see 1979A). It's been that way since the wiki was started, and I really don't see the need to change it, to be honest. To make it easier to follow though, I began creating templates of timelines to keep track of the years shown in each timeline, and the stories in which those timelines take place. It seems to me that would make it easier to follow, and we won't have to change the dating system that this wiki's always used, because I really do find changing it to be extremely counter-intuitive. JenniBee (talk) 05:03, May 24, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::As I've mentioned already, I'm not particularly in favor of pages such as 1979A, as the information can just as easily be included in the regular 1979 page as well as the 1985A/2015C pages. I've already made such adjustments to the 1971 and 1979 pages and I think we can agree it's a bit more orderly than creating seperate articles for this information. I think consolidating the information to the relevant years is better than creating seperate articles. I should make note of the fact that would approve of the creation of a 1997A article, as that one actually fits the general usage of an 'ABC' timeline. One of the wiki's weaker aspects at the moment is a general lack of oversight, with no active admins and a limited number of users, which results in pretty much any given user having the freedom to do whatever they wish, which is how pages such as 1979A were created in the first place. I (and you as well obviously) wish for the wiki to become more orderly and up-to-date, which would involve the removal of redundant pages and a mass expansion of numerous articles, starting with the character pages and the creation of the timeline pages. The Wikia Editor (talk) 10:48, May 24, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::::The extended Back to the Future timeline is a lot trickier than you're making it though. I've already done a lot of work on working out how everything works together at Chronology of Back to the Future. The first film would actually start at timeline 2, since Doc sent a letter back in time, which erased that version of himself from existence, burnt down the mansion, and kept the military from finding out about time travel. 1985A would happen at timeline 11, since there have been many trips through time before that happened. Riffsyphon1024, the creator of the wiki, layed down the ground rules that this wiki would treat each trip through time as a new timeline, and I think it's best that we continue to follow that. Not just because it's following the guidelines set up by the wiki founder, but it's the cleanest way to map the trips through time. Doc's speech about how every action creates a branch in time does fit this method of time tracking. Plus, the comics have mentioned even trips you have somehow deemed insignificant (such as Marty not hitting the Rolls-Royce) as a new timeline. Your proposed method is way too messy, as we'd have people traveling forward and backward in time in one timeline. And, if you map it linearly, it's super confusing since a character would time travel at a point after a time travel before that time travel happened, and if you mapped it by trip, you'd have multiple sections with the same year at different points of the same timeline. I tried to do it in your proposed method myself when I began trying to map out all of the trips ever shown in any official media, and it just becomes confusing and really hard to follow by lumping everything together. JenniBee (talk) 09:19, May 24, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::::If you look closely at the graph on that page, it clearly shows that traveling forward in time does not create a new timeline, instead, the time traveler travels along the current timeline. Yes, mapping it linearly can get confusing, but that's the nature of time travel. Every single source I've ever read, including Riffsyphon1024, agree that traveling forward in time does not change the timeline. Pretty much every other work of fiction featuring time travel follows this concept as well. The Wikia Editor (talk) 17:47, May 24, 2017 (UTC) I agree with The Wikia Editor here. From both the diagram in BTTF II, Doc's statements in the game, and probably the diagram in Doc Brown Saves the World, we can see that new timelines are only created on backwards jumps. Olicomet (talk) 16:36, May 24, 2017 (UTC) :Yeah, I didn't take in account that Back to the Future II had them visiting their own timeline, which would mean that future jumps didn't change the timeline. I'll adjust the chronology accordingly. JenniBee (talk) 05:51, May 27, 2017 (UTC) 2 things 1) I noticed that in your profile you wrote something about the citizen brown timeline but added the link to 1986A which is no longer a game timeline but a Biff to the Future one. It is not really helpful to people to have a link to something else on Futurepedia. 2) I really like your work on the chronology/extended timeline thing. Before i became a/an(?) user i checked every day if the article had an edit. I thank you for your amazing work on the wiki, keep contributing.Shacharrz (talk) 17:49, December 8, 2017 (UTC) :Thanks. :) I'll correct the link in my profile. Thanks a lot for helping to fix all the issues that crept up when I moved out Back to the Future: Citizen Brown in the extended timeline. JenniBee (talk) 15:39, December 20, 2017 (UTC) :Just finished to fix it all... all the 1986 articles are now corrected but it still need to be on the ABC article. could you please do it? I don't think I'll do it good. :Shacharrz (talk) 16:01, December 20, 2017 (UTC) Your recently created pages Hi JenniBee, Just thought I'd drop you a line to let you know I've added the previously omitted 'Appearances' section to your recently created pages Camel cigarettes, Camel cigarettes vendor, Cigarette and Tobacco. However, I don't know which issue number(s) of Back to the Future: Tales from the Time Train the pages related to (I only read the trade paperbacks, I'm afraid), so perhaps you could add these so the 'Appearances' section on each page will be complete? Many thanks. I await your reply with great interest. Freddie R. Aldous (talk) 20:04, February 17, 2018 (UTC) ::Whoops. Thanks for adding the appearances sections to those pages. I just went through and added the issue numbers. JenniBee (talk)